Parents with No Known Names - SNGF on October 18, 2025

Randy Seaver's suggestion yesterday for this week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun was this:

1. Sometimes we don't know the full name of both of the parents of an ancestor.  In our family tree, those ancestors with no-known-name parents are the end-of-the-line, at least as far as we know. [Some researchers call them "brick walls."]
2. Tell us about several of your ancestors that have no known-name parents, 
3. When was the last time you looked for these not known parents? 

This is a topic I havn't thought about for a while, but one I'm happy to revisit.  For the grandparents below, it's not for lack of searching that I don't know their names.

Henry Carl Meinzen is my great-grandfather, my maternal grandfather's father.  Henry was born in Prussia/Hanover/Germany in 1837 and died in Ohio in 1925.   Family lore claims Henry's father's name as Carl.  However, Henry's sister Sophia Meinzen Kropp's death certificate gives their father's name as Deidrich.  I've been unable to locate a document that tells their town or city of birth and have found no church records that I can definitively associate with Henry, Sophia, or their father.

John Froman is one of my paternal great-great-grandfathers.  He was born about 1841 in Germany and died about December, 1871, in Mercer County, PA.  He arrived in the U.S. in 1856 at the age of 16 as Johannes Frommann along with Werner Frommann, 54 years; Maria, 21; Anna, 12; Elisabeth, 7; Heinrich, 5; Caspar, 4; and Christiane, 23.  I've not found evidence of Werner Frommann in any other documents (even with spelling variants).  Writing this reminds me that I might find a death record for one of John's siblings that gives parents' names, not that a death certificate will positively identify a parent, but it's another place to look.  

Christian Gerner and Mary E. Stahl are my second great-grandparents, my father's great-grandparents, born about 1820 and 1824, respectively.  They immigrated to the U.S. in 1852 with one child; other children followed in 1853.  I've found no information for either of their parents.  Both were born in Germany, as far as I can tell, and married in Germany, but I don't have a city or town name where they were born or married to help.

William Doyle is my third great-grandfather, born about 1802, probably in Northumberland, and died in 1838 in Northumberland, England.  I haven't yet been able to identify his parents.  With only a name, and a common one at that, and birth year, I'm still searching.

Robert Laws is another third great-grandfather.  He and William Doyle were in-laws: William's son and Robert's daughter married in 1863.  Robert died in 1881.  There were several men named Robert Laws in Northumberland, possibly relatives, but I haven't found a hint for Robert's parents' names yet.  (How I wish British church records included names of parents!)

Making this list reminds me that I need to search for the parents of these individuals again, possibly using the names of several/more of their children to help.  For some of them it's been at least 10 years.  A lot can happen with online records in 10 years!

Sometimes I think I have too many ancestors!

Thanks for the fun, Randy.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Abel and Raymond: Two Who Disappeared - SNGF

For this week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun Randy Seaver of Genea-Musings suggested we do this:

1. Sometimes an ancestor or relative just disappears out of the records and we cannot find another record after a certain date. 
2. Tell us about one or more of your relatives or ancestors who have disappeared and not been found since a certain date.  Do you have any idea of what might have happened to them?

Abel Armitage disappeared sometime after 1881.  He is one of my great-great-grandfathers, a coal miner who was born in Yorkshire West Riding, England, in 1821, and immigrated from Durham, England in 1864.  He settled in Steubenville, Ohio, where he continued the work of coal mining.  In the 1880 U.S. Census he is recorded as disabled.  The most recent evidence of him is in Steubenville City Council records in which he was awarded money from a court case against the city of Steubenville.  People don't just disappear!  Except he did.  I've searched every source I can think of that might be helpful including online court records, census records, newspapers of the time, probate records, cemetery records, and more.  One of his sons happens to share his father's name, so his name turns up often in records, but he's the wrong man.

I thought perhaps Abel might have moved to West Virginia, or Pennsylvania, but haven't found any records in either of those states.  My search of British records and newspapers was unsuccessful.  I thought he might have returned to England.  That was a challenge because there were two men named Able Armitage in the area where my Abel was born, one three years after my Abel.  I also searched a variety of name variations.  It seems strange that there's no obituary or death record.  Every now and then I search again, thinking new online records might shed some light.  

Raymond Doyle is the adopted son of my great-grandparents, William and Tressa Doyle, and my paternal grandfather Gust Doyle's brother.  He was born about 1904 or 1905, presumably in Mercer County, Pennsylvania..  By 1920 Raymond was living at the State Institution for the Feeble-minded in Polk, Pennsylvania, and the 1950 U.S. Census shows him living in the Mercer County Home in Coolspring Township, Mercer County, Pennsylvania.  I met Raymond sometime around 1960 at the County Home, but have no knowledge of what became of him after I met him.  My best guess is that he died at the County Home.

Since I don't know his birth name, I can't search for a birth record.  Adoption records are sealed in Pennsylvania so that's a closed door.  I thought there would be a record of his death in Pennsylvania death certificates, but have not found one.  The Mercer County home is no longer in existence and I haven't discovered if records are available somewhere, though it's likely they're sealed, too..  I have not found an obituary; I assume he would not have had one.  I haven't found him in any cemetery records.  And there seem to be no family records for Raymond. 

Again and again, these two men come to mind, almost as though they're pestering me.  I want to know what happened to them--it's as if knowing their end would allow me to put them, and the search for them, to rest.  

Thanks for the fun, Randy.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Top Five Surprises in Genealogy Research - SNGF

Randy Seaver's suggestion for Saturday Night Genealogy Fun yesterday was this:

"What are your top five surprises you have found in your genealogy research and family history work?"

I was surprised to learn

• that my father was a twin, that his twin sister died a few days after they was born, and that their mother died a few weeks later.  So sad for that little family.  (As I've mentioned before, I come from a long line of non-storytellers.)


• that my maternal grandfather, W. C. Robert had so many siblings, which my mom and her siblings didn't seem to know.  It seems they knew only of Grampa, five sisters, and one brother.  In total there were 15 siblings, one of which I can't find.  Whenever anyone asked Grampa about his childhood and family he would say, "Go ask Aunt Mina."


• that 3 of my great-grandmothers had 14 or more children:  Elizabeth Jane (Laws) Doyle had 14 children; Elizabeth (Armitage) Meinzen had 15 children; and Elvira (Bartley) Gerner had 16 children.  I'm in awe.


• that my maternal grandmother's grandfather, Ellis Bickerstaff, committed suicide.  Such sorrow.


• that two of my great-grandfathers, John Froman and William Doyle (the elder), died when their wives were pregnant.  Strong women.


• how many of my ancestors among the first five generations (not including mine) were coal miners.   There are a total of ten.  On my father's side:  my father Lee Doyle, Gust Doyle, William Doyle, Andrew Doyle, William Doyle (the elder), Robert Laws, John Froman, and Jacob Saylor; and on my mother's side, Abel Armitage and Robert Nelson.  Strong men.

This was a great and fun activity, Randy.  Thank you.  It helped me realize how few family groups I've posted here.  I need to do that.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Did My Grandparents Know Their Grandparents?

This week Randy hit on a topic for Saturday Night Genealogy Fun that is always of interest to me:  who knew whom and whose lives overlapped, and for how long.

He wrote this challenge, 

1. Did your grandparents know their grandparents personally? 
2. Check your family tree, and share your grandparents' names, birth and death years and places, and their grandparents' names, birth and death year and places, and indicate if they knew their grandparents.

Gust Doyle is my paternal grandfather.  
He was born in 1888 in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania, and died in 1933 in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania.

Gust's grandparents were 

• Andrew Doyle who was born in 1836 in England and died in 1908 in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania.  Their lives would have crossed for about 20 years.
• Elizabeth Jane Laws Doyle was born in 1845 in England and died in 1910 in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania.  Their lives would have crossed for about 22 years.
• John Froman was born in about 1841 in Germany and died in West Salem Township, Mercer County, Ohio, in 1871.  Gust did not know this grandfather.
• Catherine Saylor was born in 1844 in Germany and died in 1928 in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania.  Their lives would have crossed for about 40 years.

Beulah Gerner is my paternal grandmother.  She was born in Butler County, Pennsylvania, in 1888.  She died in 1913 in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania.

Her grandparents were

• Christian Gerner was born in about 1820 in Prussia and died in 1899 in Butler County, Pennsylvania.  They would have known each other for about 11 years.
• Mary E. (or Elizabeth) Stahl was born in about 1824 in Germany and died in 1881 in Butler County, Pennsylvania.  Beulah and Mary would not have known each other.
• Dixon Bartley was born in 1805 in Pennsylvania and died in 1900 in Parker Township, Butler County, Pennsylvania.  Their lives would have overlapped for about 12 years. 
• Rebecca Smith was born in Parker Township, Butler, Pennsylvania in 1820.  She died in 1899 in the same location.  She and Beulah would have had 11 years to get to know each other.

W. C. Robert Meinzen is my maternal grandfather.  He was born in 1892 in Steubenville, Ohio, and died in 1979 in Mineral Ridge, Ohio.

His grandparents were

• paternal grandfather not yet found
• paternal grandmother not yet found
• Abel Armitage was born in about 1821 in England.  He lived until at least 1880 but I have not yet found a death record for him.
• Eliza Hartley was born in 1812 in Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England.  She died in 1856 in Trimdon, Durham, England.  She and my grandfather would not have known each other.

Emma Bickerstaff Meinzen is my maternal grandmother.  She was born in 1893 in Steubenville, Ohio, and died in 1973 in Warren, Ohio

Her grandparents were 

• Ellis H. Bickerstaff was born in 1840 in Steubenville, Ohio.  He died in 1907 in McKeesport, Pennsylvania.  Emma was about 14 when he died so they would have known each other. 
• Emma P. Nelson was born in 1845 or 1846, probably in Jefferson County, Ohio.  She died in 1878.  The Emmas would not have known each other.  
• John Thomas Thompson was born in 1850 or 1851 in New Alexandria, Ohio.  He died in 1923 in Cross Creek Township, Jefferson County, Ohio.  Their lives would have crossed for about 30 years.
• Lydia Bell was born in 1851 in Jefferson County, Ohio.  She died in 1930 in Cross Creek District, Wellsburg, West Virginia.  Their lives would have overlapped for about 37 years.   

Yes, nine grandchildren and grandparents would have known each other.
No, four grandchildren would not have know their grandparents.
Unknown acquaintance for three grandchildren/grandparents, but probably not likely.

Thanks so much for the fun, Randy.  This is something that's been in the back of my mind for years.  It would have been more years if you hadn't suggest we do this tonight.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Occupations of My Second Great-Grandfathers - SNGF

Randy Seaver's suggested Saturday Night Genealogy Fun for March 29 was this:

1)  Our ancestors had to work to support themselves and their families.  Do you know what occupations your 2nd great-grandfathers had?  Tell us about them.  If one intrigues or mystifies you, ask a free Artificial Intelligence tool to tell you more about the occupation in that place and time.

2) Tell us about the occupations of your 2nd great-grandfathers (and any AI created description of those occupations) on in your own blog post, in a comment on this post, or in a Facebook post.  Please leave a link on this post if you write your own post.

On my paternal side.

• Andrew Doyle (1836-1908) was a coal miner in Northumberland, England, and in Mercer County, Pennsylvania, and then became a grocer.
• John Froman (~1841-1871) was a coal miner.
• Christian Gerner (~1820-1899) was a farmer.
• Dixon Bartley (1805-1900) was a farmer.

On my maternal side:

• Carl Meinzen is still an unknown individual.
• Abel Armitage (~1821-after 1881) was a coal miner in Yorkshire and Durham, England, and in Jefferson County, Ohio.
• Ellis H. Bickerstaff (1840-1907) was a carpenter in Jefferson County, Ohio
• John Thomas Thompson (~1850-1923) was a laborer and junk dealer in Jefferson County, Ohio.

I come from a long line of manual laborers.  Good, honest work.

Thanks for the fun suggestion, Randy.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Ancestors Who Suffered the Loss of a Parent at a Young Age - SNGF

Randy's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun this week asked

1)  Do you have ancestors who suffered the loss of one or both parents early in their life?  Did the surviving parent remarry soon after one parent died?  Was a guardian appointed for your ancestor to protect their physical or legal interests?    

2)  Tell us about one or two of your "orphaned" ancestors and how this affected their life.

In five generations I have five ancestors who were young, from 8 years to 1 month, when either a father or mother died.  I don't know whether I feel sorrier for the children left without a parent, or parents left with young children and no spouse.  Either circumstance would be heart-breaking.

These are my five ancestors who became half-orphans.

1. Lee Doyle, my father, and his twin sister, Leila, were born in February, 1913.  Leila died soon after birth.  Lee was about a month old when his mother, Beulah Mae (Gerner) Doyle, died in early April.  She was 24.  She left behind her husband, Gust, and little Lee, about a month old.
   
   I believe my father's life was difficult without his mother.  His father remarried a woman who was, perhaps jealous of my father or of his mother.  From what I've heard, she was somewhat abusive and Gust did his best to keep Lee away from her.  My father once said he knew about the stepmother in Cinderella.
   
   He spent time with his grandparents, William and Tressa (Froman) Doyle.  But a grandmother, no matter how loving, cannot replace a mother.
   
   Additionally, my father's father, Gust, died when my father was 21 and Gust was 44.
   
   
2. Elizabeth (Armitage) Meinzen, my great-grandmother, was born in 1852.  She was 4 years old when her mother, Eliza (Hartley) Armitage, died of consumption in 1856 at the age of 44.  Eliza left behind her husband, Abel, and two daughters, ages 6 and 4.
   
   
3. Edward Jesse Bickerstaff, my great-grandfather, was born in 1871.  He was 7 when his mother, Emma (Nelson) Bickerstaff, died in 1878.  Emma was 33 years old at the time of her death.  She left her husband, Ellis, and three children, ages 15 to 7.
   
   
4. Tressa Rose (Froman) Doyle, my great-grandmother, was born in 1867.  She was 4 years old when her father, John Froman, died in 1871.  He was about 30 years old at the time of his death.  John left behind his pregnant wife, Catherine (Saylor) Froman, and six children, ages 10 to 1. A baby born 2 months after his death.
   In this case, John left the family in debt and the children were provided a guardian, S. W. Mannheimer, whose identity or relationship I've been unable to determine.  Catherine's father, Jacob D. Seylor/Sailer/Seyler, was the administrator.
   
   
5. Andrew Doyle, my great-great-grandfather, was born in 1836.  He was 2 years old when his father, William Doyle, died in an accident in 1838 when he was about 36.  William left behind his pregnant wife, Martha, and five children ages 12 to 2.  The baby was born six months later.
   
   

It is surprising to me that two of these fathers, John Froman and William Doyle, were both coal miners.  William died after being run over by a cart wheel.  Were both accidental mining deaths?  Also surprising is that both of their wives were pregnant at the time of their deaths.

Thanks for the genealogy fun, Randy.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2024 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Results of Grandparents' Surname Searches at FamilySearch Full Text Search for Saturday Night Genealogy Fun

For Saturday Night Genealogy Fun this week, Randy Seaver of Genea-Musings suggested this:

How many "Wills" for your grandparents' or great-grandparents' surnames are on the FamilySearch Full Text Search feature (see https://www.familysearch.org/search/full-text)?

I finished my list then realized that lists may contain results for much more than wills.  FamilySearch has expanded this collection so the results may include the following:  Legal Records, Censuses, Religious Records, Genealogies, Funeral Home Records, Miscellaneous Records, Military Records, Periodicals, School Records, Vital Records, Business Records, Government Records, Reference Materials, Voting Records, Migration Records, and Medical Records. 

I didn't go back to narrow the results to only wills so my results include all of the records FamilySearch found for each surname.

These are the results for my grandparents' and great-grandparents' surnames.

• Doyle:  350,391 results
• Gerner:  4,314 results
• Meinzen:  63 results
• Bickerstaff:  4356 results
• Froman:  13,413
• Bartley:  79,132
• Armitage:  30,570
• Thompson:  3,374,976

And these are the results for my second and third great-grandparents' surnames.

• Laws:  3,374,976
• Saylor:  8,497,986
• Stahl:  47,367
• Smith:  11,710,373
• Hartley:  158,093
• Nelson:  2,200,328
• Bell:  2,835,995

I admit I was surprised at the high number of results for some of these surnames.  Talk about common names!  Thank goodness I can narrow the results by adding a first name; by country, state, and county; or by kind of record.

Thanks for the fun, Randy.
—Nancy.

Copyright © 2024 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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My Most Frustrating Research Challenge, for Saturday Night Genealogy Fun (on Sunday)

Randy's suggestion for genealogy fun this past Saturday was to write about our most frustrating research challenge.  I chuckled when I saw "fun" and "most frustrating research challenge" in the same sentence.  Who but a genealogist/family historian would consider frustrating research to be fun?  (It is, isn't it?!)  There are probably some people with other hobbies and professions who might but I don't know who.

I can't decide which ancestor presents the most challenging research.  It could be Henry C. Meinzen, whose place of origin and parents' names I've yet to verifiably discover; or it might be William Doyle, son of Andrew and Elizabeth (Laws) Doyle, whose absence of a birth record leaves his connection to his parents in question; or it may be the other William Doyle, a coal miner who died in 1838, whose parents I've been unable to discover.

Henry Carl (or C.) Meinzen, in brief
Henry is my great-grandfather, my mother's paternal grandfather.  He and his family were easily found in the 1870, 1880, and 1900-1920 U.S. Census records, living in Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio.  He was born in either Hannover, Prussia, or Germany (depending on the census year), in 1837.  According to his naturalization documents, he immigrated in 1866 and became a naturalized citizen in 1871.  He married Elizabeth Armitage in 1870.  He died in 1926, in Steubenville.  All information on his death certificate comes from what I consider hearsay because it was passed along from him to his children.  His death certificate gives his father's name as Carl Meinzen. 

Now come the interesting parts.

• There is a Graves Registration Card for Henry C. Meinzen.  It indicates that he served in the Civil War from August 11, 1862, to August 10, 1863, in the U.S. Navy as a Seaman on the ships "Cairo" and "Brilliant."  All information on the card corresponds correctly to known information about Henry but I have been unable to locate any information about him serving in the Civil War.  If this information were true, it suggests that he arrived in the U.S. four years earlier than he states on his naturalization record.  I have found no evidence anywhere to verify this information or his service in the Union or Confederate military.  
  
• There is an immigration record at the Castle Garden website for Ernst Meinzen with information that corresponds exactly to Henry's information -- all except the first name.  The age, arrival date, and destination could all be Henry's information.  I've found no immigration record for Henry or Heinrich Meinzen.  I continue to wonder if Ernst and Henry could be the same man.  I've not found an Ernst Meinzen born in 1837 or thereabouts, in Ohio.  Did Henry change his name or decide to use a name other than the one he used in Hannover/Prussia/Germany?  A new start with a new name?  There were no ID cards in the 1870s....
  
• A somewhat distant cousin told me the story of three Meinzen brothers who travelled together from Germany, arriving by train in Ohio.  Henry decided to stop and stay in Steubenville, Ohio.  Truth, or is it the three brothers myth? 
  
• Henry's sister, Sophia (Meinzen) Kropp, arrived in the U.S. in 1887, along with her husband and several children, and settled in Steubenville, Ohio.  Neither her death certificate nor obituary mention her mother's name and her death certificate tells me that her father's name is Deidrick Meinzen.  Of course, it's possible that it was Carl Deidrick or Deidrick Carl, or that the informant for the death certificate misunderstood the question, but there's no way to know until I find further information.
  

William Doyle, in brief
William is my great-grandfather, my father's paternal grandfather.  Family records tell me that he was born in Bedlington, Northumberland, England, in March, 1873, and is the son of Andrew and Elizabeth Jane (Laws) Doyle.  I've found an immigration record, have reviewed U.S. census records, have a death certificate, an obituary....  But nowhere in British records have I been able to find a birth record for William Doyle, born March 3, 1863.  Not in civil records or church records.  Doesn't that seem strange?

William Doyle, in brief
This William is my third-great-grandfather, the grandfather of the William Doyle, above.  This William was born about 1802; married Martha Reay in 1825; and died in 1838.  I have a church marriage record (which gives names and date of marriage) and a civil death record (which gives his age as 36 years).  Neither record names his parents, his birth date, or the location of his birth.  If only William Doyle weren't such a common name!

These are my current, and long-time, research challenges.  To be honest, research on these three has been laid to rest for several years.  Perhaps it's about time I pick up where I left off and research some more!

Thanks for the fun, and the push, Randy!

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2024, Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner.

Problems Report in RootsMagic for Saturday Night Genealogy Fun

For Saturday Night Genealogy Fun last night, Randy Seaver suggested doing a genealogy software problems report.  At first I thought, Nope, not doing it.  I'm sure it will turn up dozens and dozens of problems that I'm not prepared to deal with right now.  But then I relented and made the report.  Whew!  Only six problems.  (But then there are only 529 people in my program.)

I'm still using RootsMagic 7.  I clicked on "Tools" then "Problem Search > Problem List."  I was able to check or uncheck 10 options.  I left all of them checked.  (From Randy's post I see that RM 9 has an extensive list which would be more helpful.)

These are the problems RootsMagic searched for.

• Individuals without sex entered
• Proper order of events
• Birth before parents' marriage
• Birth before parent's birth
• Birth after father's death
• Birth after mother's death
• Age at death should be less than 102
• Age at marriage should be between 14 and 70
• Father's age should be between 14 and 70
• Mother's age should be between 14 and 50

These are the problems RM indicated and my responses to the problems.

Bickerstaff, Margie J.   Parents married after person's birth
Yes, a problem.  Margie is one of my mother's cousins.  All of her information comes from her obituary.  It doesn't help that I don't have an exact date for her parents' marriage.  More research is needed for this family.   For now I'll make a note on her page.

Doyle, William   Parents married after person's birth
Definitely a problem!  William is my paternal great-grandfather, the son of Andrew and Elizabeth (Laws) Doyle who, GRO records tell me, were married on November 14, 1863.  His birth date of March 3, 1863, comes from family records (which have been notoriously inaccurate.)  Sadly, I have been unable to find a U.K. birth record of any kind-- not a civil record or a church baptismal record.  I thought it could be possible that he was the son of his father and his father's first wife, Jane Barron, but nothing turned up in my searches in that direction.  I turned away from researching the Doyle line for a while because of this problem.

Froman, Catherine   Born after father's death
Not a problem.  Catherine's father, John Froman, died when Catherine's mother was pregnant.  John died in December, 1871, and Catherine was born in January, 1872

Hardy, Robert   Parents married after person's birth
Yes, a problem.  Robert is my great-grandmother's sister's son.  His birth information comes from the 1900 U.S. Census.   I've done little research on this family but I believe county records will show an accurate birth date.  County records may also give a marriage record (and date) for his parents.  I'll make a note in his person page and look for the information sometime in the future

For these two infants, their sex was not indicated on records and I have no way to learn it for either.
Kitch, Infant   Unknown sex
Meinzen, Stillborn Infant   Unknown sex

Thanks for suggesting this fun activity, Randy.  It's probably a good idea to do this regularly, and especially after adding more individuals to RootsMagic.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2023 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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On September 15, 1938 - Saturday Night Genealogy Fun

For this week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun, Randy Seaver of Genea-Musings, suggested, we choose a date from our family history, then go to dMarie Time Capsule to enter the date and learn events from the the date we chose.

Audrey Meinzen & Lee Doyle, abt. 1937

My parents' wedding anniversary is next week:  they were married on Tuesday, September 15, 1938.  I doubt they were paying much attention to the news or anything but each other, but I decided to see what was going on in the world around them.  This is what dMarie and the local newspaper, The Niles Daily Times, published on that date told me.

Top News Headlines
Sep 15

• British PM Chamberlain visits Hitler at Berchtesgarden
• Martial Law Extended after Riots in Czechoslovakia
• Czechs Fear They May Be Asked for More Concessions
• France Confident of Solution Without War
• John Cobb sets world auto speed record at 350.2 MPH (lasts 1 day)

Sep 16

• George E.T. Eyston sets world auto speed record at 357.5 MPH

President and Vice President
Franklin D. Roosevelt
John N. Garner

Top Songs 


It was the era of big bands, the fox trot, and waltzes.  My mom enjoyed music but my father, not so much.

• "My Reverie" by Larry Clinton (here)
• "Begin the Beguine" by Artie Shaw (here)
• "Cry, Baby, Cry" by Larry Clinton
• "Ti-Pi-Tin" by Horace Heidt
• "A-Tisket, A-Tasket" by Ella Fitzgerald with Chick Webb
• "Thanks for the Memory" by Shep Fields (here)
• "Music, Maestro, Please" by Tommy Dorsey
• "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen" by Andrews Sisters
• "I've Got a Pocketful of Dreams" by Bing Crosby (here)

Radio Programs
"Amos and Andy"
"Kraft Music Hall"

Academy Award Winners
Best Picture:   "You Can't Take It With You," directed By Frank Capra
Best Actor:      Spencer Tracy in "Boys Town"
Best Actress:   Bette Davis in "Jezebel"

Prices
Essential foods:  Bread 9¢/loaf.  Milk 50¢/gallon.  Eggs 57¢/dozen.  Cheese 17¢/loaf.
Fruit & Vegetables:  Head Lettuce 15¢/2.  Yellow Onions 17¢/10 lb.  Grapes 5¢/pound.
Meat:  Chuck Roast 17¢/lb.  Ground Beef 29¢/2#.  Dressed Chickens 25¢/lb.
Coffee 14¢/lb.
Baking supplies:  Flour 75¢/24½ lb.  Sugar  $1.15/25 lb.
For canning:  Mason Jars 65¢/doz.
Transportation:  Car  $710.  Gas 20¢/gal.
House  $6,420
Stamp  3¢/ea
Average Income  $1,808/year.  Minimum wage  25¢/hour
DOW Avg  155  (I doubt my father was investing money yet.)

This was such a fun activity, Randy.  Thanks for suggesting it.  I think it can add a lot of interest to the lives of ancestors we know little about.  And I always enjoy jumping back into the social history of my ancestors' lives.

–Nancy.

Copyright ©2020, Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 

Died Early, Born Late

This week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun at Randy Seaver's GeneaMusings was to answer this question:   How Many Ancestors Have You "Met?"

1) Write down which of your ancestors that you have met in person (yes, even if you were too young to remember them).
2) Tell us their names, where they lived, and their relationship to you in a blog post, or in comments to this post, or in comments on Facebook.

Many of the ancestors I could have known died at early ages of unusual cases, and being the youngest child of my parents, I was born late.  I regret that I have met exactly and only four of my ancestors.

Audrey (Meinzen) Doyle (1915-1997), my mother, was born in Warren, Ohio, where she lived for a few years of her childhood.  She lived most of her life in Mineral Ridge, Ohio, except for a few years back in Warren while she was a nursing student and in Niles, Ohio for a few years after her marriage.

Lee Doyle (1913-1987), my father, was born in Stoneboro, Pennsylvania, where he lived for the first 20 or 21 years of his life.  From there he moved to Niles, Ohio, where he lived until after his marriage to my mother in 1938.  He lived the rest of his life in Mineral Ridge, Ohio.

Emma (Bickerstaff) Meinzen (1893-1973), my maternal grandmother, was born in Mingo Junction, Ohio.  She lived there and in neighboring towns, including Steubenville, until she was about 20, when she moved with her parents to Mineral Ridge, Ohio.  When she married, she and her husband lived in Warren, Ohio, for a few years, then moved to Mineral Ridge.

William Carl Robert Meinzen (1892-1979), my maternal grandmother, was born in Steubenville, Ohio, and lived there until his marriage in 1914.  He and his wife lived in Warren, Ohio, for a few years, then moved to Mineral Ridge, Ohio, where they both spend the rest of their lives.

Thanks for the Saturday Night Genealogy Fun, Randy.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2020, Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Married Fifty Years - Saturday Night Genealogy Fun

Thanks to Randy of GeneaMusings and Marcia Philbrick of Heartland Genealogy for the Saturday Night Genealogy Fun this week.  

This week's challenge was to answer these questions.

How many of your ancestors were married for FIFTY years?  What is the longest marriage of your ancestors in your tree (from marriage to first death of a spouse, or divorce)?

I guessed there would be few long marriages among my ancestors because it seemed like there were so many early deaths.  I was surprised to learn how wrong I was.  You may also notice that some marriages are not included; that's because I don't have accurate dates for them or do not know who the ancestors are.

These are my ancestors and the lengths of their marriages:

My parents
Lee and Audrey Meinzen Doyle - 49 years (1938-1987)

My grandparents
Gust and Beulah Mae (Gerner) Doyle - 1 year 3 months (1911-1913)
W. C. Robert Meinzen & Emma Bickerstaff - 59 years (1914-1973)

My great-grandparents
William and Tressa Rose (Froman) Doyle - 51 years (1885-1936)
Frederick K. and Elvira (Bartley) Gerner - 53 years (1872-1926)
Henry C. and Elizabeth (Armitage) Meinzen - 50 years (1870-1920)
Edward Jesse and Mary (Thompson) Bickerstaff - 49 years (1891-1940)

My great-great-grandparents
Andrew & Elizabeth Jane (Laws) Doyle - 45 years (1863-1908)
John and Catherine (Saylor) Froman - abt. 10 years (~1861-1871)
Christian and Mary/Elizabeth (Stahl) - unknown
Dixon and Rebecca (Smith) Bartley - 61-63 years (~1836/1838-1899)
Abel and Eliza (Hartley) Armitage - 9 years (1847-1856)
Ellis and Emma V. (Nelson) Bickerstaff - 17 years (1861-1878)
John and Lydia (Bell) Thompson - 51 years (1872-1923)

My great-great-great-grandparents
William and Martha (Reay) Doyle - 13 years (1825-1838
Robert and Elizabeth (Thompson) Laws - 47 years (1834-1881)
Jacob and Elizabeth (Shaefer) Saylor - 20 years (1838-~1858)
William and Susanna/Susan (Holmes) Bickerstaff - 63 years (1830-1893)

Across five generations:
Only seven of my ancestral couples had marriages of 50 years or longer.
The longest marriage was 63 years.  Another couple may have been married 63 years (but the marriage year is still uncertain).

Thanks for the Saturday Night Genealogy Fun, Randy and Marcia.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2019, Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner.
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Two Degrees of Separation - SNGF

Randy Seaver's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun on GeneaMusings yesterday was this:

Using your ancestral lines, how far back in time can you go with two degrees of separation?  That means "you knew an ancestor, who knew another ancestor."  When was that second ancestor born?

On my maternal side of the family

I was born in 1950.  I knew my mother's father, W. R. Robert Meinzen (1892-1979, b. Jefferson County, Ohio,  d. Trumbull County, Ohio), who knew his father, Henry C. Meinzen (1837-1925, b. Germany, d. Steubenville, Ohio).

I knew my maternal grandmother, Emma (Bickerstaff) Meinzen (1893-1973, b. Jefferson County, Ohio, d. Trumbull County, Ohio), who was probably at least introduced to her great-grandfather, William Bickerstaff (1807-1893, b. and d. Jefferson County, Ohio).  She would have been only about a month old when he died.

The same grandmother, Emma, probably also knew her paternal great-grandfather, Jacob Bell (1824-1915, b. and d. Jefferson County, Ohio).


On my paternal side of the family

All of my grandparents and great-grandparents on this side died before I was born.  My father knew other grandparents but none goes back further than the relationship below.

I knew my father, Lee Doyle (1913-1987, b. Mercer County, Pennsylvania, d. Trumbull County, Ohio), who would have known his great-grandmother, Catherine (Saylor) Froman (1844-1928, b. Germany, d. Mercer County, Pennsylvania).


With two degrees of separation I can connect through my grandmother to my third great-grandfather, born in 1807.  He was born 212 years ago.  There are 143 years between our births.

Thanks for the fun, Randy.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2019, Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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A Trio of Earliest Memories - Saturday Night Genealogy Fun

Randy Seaver of Genea-Musings regularly hosts Saturday Night Genealogy Fun.  This week's assignment, suggested by Janice Sellers, is to answer the following questions.  Thanks for hosting, Randy, and thanks for the idea, Janice.

1) What is your earliest memory?  How old were you, where did you live, who are the characters in your memory?

It's hard to know which of these memories is the earliest but it's possible and likely that I was younger in the first than in the other two accounts.

My mom did not seem a particularly maternal mother.  It was almost as though she had some discomfort touching me.  I remember being little -- maybe two, maybe three years old -- wearing a one-piece footed sleeper, and I'd been crying.  Mom was sitting in a rocking chair, holding me and rocking.  She was wearing cologne (which I might recognize if I smelled it but cannot describe), and was dressed up, maybe ready to go out for the evening.  She was either trying to comfort me or just trying to get me to quit crying.  I had a sense of her unease, almost discomfort.  It's just a wisp of a memory.

I have a vague, nebulous memory of awaking in a crib, climbing over the side, and going downstairs to the living room in our home on Furnace Street in Mineral Ridge.  Surely I was three years old or younger.  It must have been a late afternoon in mid or late fall because I remember that the windows and doors were closed and the house was warm.  I can't remember who was in the living room but I think they were surprised that I'd gotten out of the crib and come down the stairs.  I especially remember the golden glow of the setting autumn sun coming through our living room window. 

Another memory from about the same time is of my mom cleaning the living room.  She had moved the furniture to the center of the room so she could dust the baseboards and clean the floor.  My father was repairing a watch at his roll-top desk in the adjoining room.  I was sitting on the edge of the couch, possibly playing with a doll.  My father came into the room, picked me up, and put me over his knees.  He told me that since it was my third birthday he would spank me three times, which he did.  Then he stood me up and give me a large coin, probably a half dollar or a silver dollar.

I think it's strange and interesting how little strands of events, sometimes the most mundane, common events, stay in our memory, while some of the most important events seem to have been completely erased.  It's also strange how the events before and after the memory don't exist in my mind.

Thanks for the genealogy fun, Randy.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2018, Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Problem Search in RootsMagic - SNGF

Randy Seaver's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun is this:

1)  Is your genealogy software family tree database perfect?  With no errors or inconsistencies?  Yep, mine isn't either!  Big time.  With over 49,000 persons there are bound to be some errors in my tree.  Even 1% would be 490 persons or 1,500 events!

2)  This week, find your genealogy software's "Problem Report" or something similar.  Tell us how you found it, and what it tells you about the problems in your family tree database.

I use RootsMagic.  I didn't know it would find problems for me!  What an idea!

These are the parameters I gave Problem Search:

Individuals without sex entered
Proper order of events
Birth before parent's marriage
Birth before parent's birth
Birth after father's death
Birth after mother's death
Age at death should be less than 100
Age at marriage should be 14 to 70
Father's age should be 14 to 70
Mother's age should be 14 to 50





The results returned six individuals with problems. 

The parents of two individuals married after they (the individuals) were born.  I'll check on those and see if they are typos (I'm horrible), if they're accurate, or if I need to do more research.

There are two infants without sex.  One of the babies had a name that could be a boy's or a girl's name and I think he/she died as an infant.  I'll see what I can find about that baby.  The other baby was a stillborn and perhaps should not be included in RootsMagic but when a mother says she is the mother of 15 children and she's including the stillborn, I just can't leave that baby out.  I have no idea how to find the baby's name or whether they name him/her.

One problem is that a child was born after her father died.  That's accurate.  Her mother was pregnant when her father was killed in an accident.

The other problem is that someone lived to 101.  That is also accurate.

So I have four problems to check for accuracy.  Unlike Randy who has 49,000 individuals in his database, I have about 500.   This exercise reminds me to be more careful and accurate when I add individuals.

Thanks for the fun, Randy, as well as for the heads up about being able to find problems.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2017 Nancy Messier. All Rights Reserved.
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Good Grief, Henry!

Randy Seaver's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun this week at Genea-Musings was this:

Please answer the question - "Which ancestor gives you the most
researching grief?"

My great-grandfather, Henry Meinzen, began giving me research grief immediately after I found him in the easy U.S. resources -- 1870-1920 census records, city directories, death certificate, etc.  He was one of the first ancestors I began researching nearly 10 years ago -- and will probably be the person I will be researching on my death bed (if I can still research on my death bed).

Here's Henry's information, collected from various records:

• July 25, 1837 - born in Hanover/Prussia/Germany
• June, 1866 - arrived in the U.S.
• April 24, 1870 - married Elizabeth Armitage in Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio
• October 9, 1871 - became a naturalized citizen of the U.S.
• December 30, 1925 - died in Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio
• He attended Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church in Steubenville.
• He was a laborer, a gardener, a grocer, a carpenter, and wagon maker.
• He was the father of at least 14 children.
• He was survived by a brother, Fred, in Germany.
• His father's name was Karl/Carl. 
• His wife and all but 6 children died before him.

And then there are the "legends" and conflicting records

Legend #1
A cousin reported to me that Henry and two brothers departed England on January 31, 1865, on the S.S. Virginia, arriving in New York in 1871.  The ship sank in port but they managed to get safely to land and travelled by train, headed to Fort Wayne, Indiana.  Henry made friends with another traveller and when the trained stopped in Steubenville, Henry stayed.

The Problem with this Legend
That's a lengthy passage from England to the U.S.  Other math doesn't work in this scenario.  Henry was already married and living in Steubenville in 1871.  Surprisingly, the surname Meinzen appears in Fort Wayne city directories, newspapers, and census records after 1870, but I've been unable to make a connection.

There was a Henry Meinsen, born September 4, 1836, who lived in Columbus, Ohio, in 1900, and died on December 4, 1920.  His father's and mother's names are "not known" on his death certificate.  I haven't researched him.

Legend #2
There is a Civil War Graves Registration card for Henry C. Meinzen suggesting that he served in the U.S. Navy at the rank of Seaman from August 11, 1862, until August 10, 1863, on the ships "Brilliant" and "Cairo."

The Problem with this Legend
Having researched Civil War records and information about both the "Brilliant" and "Cairo" I've been unable to find Henry C. Meinzen in any of them.  Could he have come to the U.S. just to serve in the Civil War and then returned to Germany?  I've not found him on a passenger's list. 

Conflicting Information
Sophia (Meinzen) Kropp's obituary lists Henry C. Meinzen of Steubenville as her brother, and Kropps did appear in a newspaper article about one Meinzen marriage and may have attended more.   Her certificate of death gives her father's name as Deidrick.

The Conflict
Henry and Sophia do not give the same father's name.  Henry claims his father's name was Karl.  It's possible Henry used his father's call name and Sophia used his first given name.  German naming conventions can make it hard to tell who's who.

The Other Scrap of Information
And what does one do with this?  It is a transcription of an 1866 Castle Garden immigration record for Ernst Meinzen, carpenter, age 28, travelling on the Atalanta from Bremen, Germany, arriving on June 8, 1866.  His declared destination was Ohio.

Every part of this information matches -- age, country of origin, arrival date, and destination -- except this man's name is Ernst and my great-grandfather's name is Henry.  (But was it always?)  I've never found an immigration record for Henry (except on his naturalization papers).  And I've been unable to find Ernst Meinzen in any U.S. documents.  I often wonder if this is really my great-grandfather Henry or not.  Considering German naming conventions, I think it's possible but I'm not willing to assume.

Good grief, Henry!  Don't you think you could help just a little?  Another clue or two?  Just one really good lead?  I'd like to know who your parents are, where you came from....  But once again, for now, I'll lay this search to rest for a while.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2017 Nancy Messier. All Rights Reserved.
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New Technology in the Lives of My Ancestors

This week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun, proposed by Randy Seaver of Genea-Musings, sounded fun.  These are the questions to answer:

• What technology changes did your ancestors see?
• What technology changes have you seen?
• Did your family own one of those early changes? - such as television
• Do you like or dislike technology?
• What do you think has been the best technological change in your lifetime and historically?

Before writing this post I briefly researched major inventions and realized that the years most inventions were created were not the years they came into regular use.  For some, it was several decades before they became common in homes.  More recent inventions seem to have hit the market and become popular more quickly.

For example, the compact cassette player was invented in 1962 but did not become popular until a few years later.  I graduated from high school in 1968, went off to college, and in 1971 or 1972, was required to use a cassette recorder for a linguistics course.  Not owning one and choosing not to buy one, I borrowed one from the university.  I took it home over a weekend to work on the project.  My father wanted to see this machine and learn what it did.  He was fascinated.  I think he bought one within a week or so.

New technology popularly used in my dad's lifetime, 1913 to 1987, included sound movies, ballpoint pens, photocopies, microwave ovens, transistor radios, 8 mm film for home movies, pocket calculators, and electric refrigerators which were surely a welcome technology to the women who probably used them more than anyone.

Dad disdained the use of pocket calculators, but that's because he could do the math in his head faster than anyone could punch in the numbers.  But he bought and used a movie camera in 1966 and used it for years.

I think my father liked new technology when he was introduced to it, though he didn't seek it out.  In about 1960 we visited his aunt whose daughter and son-in-law owned a restaurant.  After eating dinner there we ordered pie a la mode.  The pie was warm, the ice cream cold.  Dad asked if the pie had just come out of the oven.  No, they'd put it in the microwave to warm it.  And the ice cream?  Was that added after?  No, they put the ice cream on the pie before putting both in the microwave.  And the pie was warm and the ice cream cold!  Amazing.  I think we were the first in our little town to have a microwave oven.  Of course, Mom and Dad used it for not much more than to heat water for instant coffee and warm pie.

Going back one generation to my grandparents, who lived roughly between the years of 1888 and 1979, they were blessed by the invention of radios, movies, the zipper, airplanes, automobiles, and, especially appreciated by the women, electric vacuum cleaners and electric washers. 

And going back two generations to my great-grandparents, who lived from about the 1840s through the 1920s, they would have seen the inventions of electricity to power electric lights and electric vacuum cleaners;  anaesthesia and pasteurization for health; safety pins and sewing machines; plastics, including celluloid, polyethylene, and bakelite; the telephone, the phonograph, and the gasoline engine.   

Going back to my third generation of ancestors, my great-great-grandparents were born in the in the the early 1800s and lived until nearly the end of the 19th century.  Those ancestors would have appreciated the steam locomotive, the telegraph, and Daguerreotypes.

I imagine all of these inventions would have made the lives of my ancestors easier and/or better.  I try to imagine living without some of the technology we have now -- especially in the medical fields -- and can't.  I can't even imagine going back to only the technology available during my childhood.  What would I do without a computer, a printer, a scanner, a tablet, a cell phone, the internet?  It would feel like the dark ages without them, even though I'm often technologically challenged.  One of the earliest introductions to technology was when our first TV came home in the early 1950s.  I remember how exciting it was to watch the children's programs.  How did they make the people so small that they fit inside the box?  And how did they get out of the box?

To me, one of the best and worst technology inventions is the internet and all the ways we have to connect to it.  It offers so many learning opportunities, contains so much information and, in many ways, it helps people who live at a distance connect to each other.  But I also see it isolating and preventing people from interacting with each other.  Instead of talking face to face, I see eyes focused on gadgets, ignoring the people sitting next to them.

Interesting topic, Randy.  Thanks for choosing it.

--Nancy.

Atari image courtesy of Bibly on Wikimedia Commons.

Copyright ©2017 Nancy Messier. All Rights Reserved.
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Time Is Running Out: My Genealogy Bucket List

Randy Seaver's most recent Saturday Night Genealogy Fun is this:

Knowing that a "Bucket List" is a wish list of things to do before death:

What is on your Genealogy Bucket List?  What research locations do you want to visit?  Are there genea-people that you want to meet and share with?  What do you want to accomplish with your genealogy research?   List a minimum of three items - more if you want!

I sense time speeding up and running out.  I could live 30 more years or a day.  Energy, health, and strength are not what they were a dozen years ago, either.  I need to hurry if I'm going to accomplish some of these items on my wish/bucket list, especially the overseas travel.

• Contact the owner of Dixon Bartley's home to request a tour of the inside of the house and out building.  If he is agreeable, arrange a time to travel to Bruin, Butler County, Pennsylvania, to visit.  While there, visit the courthouse and several cemeteries.  Before going, research census records and/or city directories to see if any of Fred and Elvira (Bartley) Gerner's homes are still standing and if they are, visit those, too.

• Find Henry Meinzen's birth town and determine who his parents are.

• Continue my Doyle line far enough to determine whether if/when my ancestors emigrated from Ireland to England.

• Attend RootsTech.  I'm sure I would be completely overwhelmed but wouldn't it be grand to be in the presence of so many  knowledgeable family historians!

• Go to England!  I'd love to travel to Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England, to visit the area where my Armitage ancestors lived and especially see and visit the Bradford Cathedral where Abel and Eliza (Hartley) Armitage were married.  Then next travel to Northumberland and visit several of the towns and cities where my Doyle ancestors lived.  It would be fun to learn if there are historical societies in those areas that recreate/reenact life in the early to mid-1800s.

• A week at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City would be wonderful.  I was there once for an hour or so when we drove our daughter from home to Rexburg, Idaho.  I wasn't able to do any research and the library volunteers seemed so disappointed.  I was disappointed, too.

Not having given much thought to a bucket list until Randy posted the questions, I'm sure this is a short list.

Thanks for the genealogy fun, Randy.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2017 Nancy Messier. All Rights Reserved.
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Recent Ancestors' Photographs I Don't Have - SNGF

This week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun, suggested by Randy Seaver at Genea-Musings, is this:

Recent Ancestor Photographs

1)  Do you have photos of all of your ancestors back to the 1850 time frame?  Which recent ancestors do you not have a photograph of? 

2)  Review your files, and list the ancestors for whom you want and/or need to find a photograph.  Also list where they resided and where they died.  Where would you look to find a photograph of them?

3)  Share your answers on your own blog post (and leave a comment here with a link), or on Facebook or other social media.

These are the photos I have:

• Lee and Audrey (Meinzen) Doyle, my parents
• Gust and Beulah Mae (Gerner) Doyle, my paternal grandparents
• W. C. Robert and Emma Virginia (Bickerstaff) Meinzen, my maternal grandparents
• William and Tressa Rose (Froman) Doyle, paternal great-grandparents
• Fredrick and Elvira (Bartley) Gerner, paternal great-grandparents
• Henry Carl and Elizabeth (Armitage) Meinzen, maternal great-grandparents
• Edward Jesse and Mary (Thompson) Bickerstaff, maternal great-grandparents
• Andrew and Elizabeth Jane (Laws) Doyle, paternal 2rd great-grandparents (from a small group photo)
• Dixon Bartley, paternal 2nd great-grandfather

I don't have photos of these 2nd great-grandparents:

• John Froman, ~1841-~1871, died Mercer County, Pennsylvania
• Catherine (Saylor) Froman, 1844-1928, died Mercer County, Pennsylvania 

• Christian Gerner, ~1820-1899, Butler County, Pennsylvania
• Mary/Elizbeth (Stahl) Gerner, ~1824-after 1880, of Butler County, Pennsylvania

• Rebecca (Smith) Bartley, 1820-1899, Butler County, Pennsylvania

• Carl Meinzen, no known dates, born Germany

• Abel Armitage, 1821- after 1880, Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio
• Eliza (Hartley) Armitage, ~1813 - btw. 1852-1858, West Riding Yorkshire, England

• Ellis H. Bickerstaff, 1840-1907, Steubenville, Ohio, and Allegheny County, Pennsylvania
• Emma V. (Nelson) Bickerstaff, ~1845-1878, Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio

• John Thomas Thompson, ~1850-1923, Jefferson County, Ohio
• Lydia (Bell) Thompson, 1851-1930, Jefferson County, Ohio, and Wellsburg, Brooke County, West Virginia

I don't have photos of these known 3rd great-grandparents who died after about 1850:

• Robert Laws, 1810-1881, Northumberland County, England
• Elizabeth (Thompson) Laws, 1817-1886, Northumberland County, England

• Jacob Saylor, ~1812-1870, Mercer County, Pennsylvania

• William Bickerstaff, 1807-1893, Jefferson County, Ohio
• Susan/Susannah (Holmes) Bickerstaff, 1830-1894, Jefferson County, Ohio

• Robert Nelson, 1800-1875, Montgomery County, Illinois
• Catherine (Watson) Nelson, 1806-1876, Montgomery County, Illinois

• Jacob Thompson, 1820- after 1870, probably Jefferson County, Ohio
• Mary (Richardson) Thompson, 1822- after 1880, probably Jefferson County, Ohio

• Jacob Bell, 1824-1915, Jefferson County, Ohio
• Lydia (Fithen) Bell, ~1826- after 1880, probably died Jefferson County, Ohio

Places to look for photographs (in no particular order):
> Find-a-Grave.  I've seen photos there before but not many earlier photographs.
> Family Old Photos.  Owner submitted photos; most require permission to copy and use
> Dead Fred.
> Mutual descendants (if they can be found)
> Google image search (or general search:  not everyone identifies photos with alt text)
> FamilySearch Family Tree (click Memory tab, then choose Gallery)
> local, county, and state genealogical societies where ancestors lived
> image collections at local libraries (such as vertical files)
> compiled family histories submitted by other genealogists to family history libraries
> newspaper searches (beginning about 1900) if ancestor was well-known in the community, or famous/infamous for some activity/action

Now I have even more searching to do for the 23 direct-line ancestors who could have been photographed during their lifetimes.  Thanks for the fun, Randy. 

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2017 Nancy Messier. All Rights Reserved.
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Presidents and Generations - SNGF

For this week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun Randy Seaver of GeneaMusings suggested we determine how many presidents have held office during our lifetimes and the lifetimes of our grandparents.  Randy generously provided the link to PresidentsUSA, the source for my lists. 

I have lived while 13 men have been president (which makes me feel old -- until I realized that one of my ancestors lived through 23 presidencies!).
#33  Harry S. Truman
#34  Dwight D. Eisenhower
#35  John F. Kennedy
#36  Lyndon B. Johnson
#37  Richard M. Nixon
#38  Gerald R. Ford
#39  James E. Carter
#40  Ronald Reagan
#41  George H. W. Bush
#42  William J. Clinton
#43  George W. Bush
#44  Barack H. Obama
#45  Donald J. Trump

Lee Doyle (1913-1987), my father, lived during the leadership of 14 presidents.
#27  William H. Taft
#28  Woodrow W. Wilson
#29  Warren G. Harding
#30  Calvin Coolidge
#31  Herbert Hoover
#32  Franklin D. Roosevelt
#33  Harry Truman
#34  Dwight D. Eisenhower
#35  John F. Kennedy
#36  Lyndon B. Johnson
#37  Richard M. Nixon
#38  Gerald R. Ford
#39  James E. Carter
#40  Ronald Reagan

Audrey Meinzen Doyle (1915-1997), my mother, had one less president at the beginning of her life than my father but two more at the end of her life, so 15.
#28  Woodrow W. Wilson
#29  Warren G. Harding
#30  Calvin Coolidge
#31  Herbert Hoover
#32  Franklin D. Roosevelt
#33  Harry Truman
#34  Dwight D. Eisenhower
#35  John F. Kennedy
#36  Lyndon B. Johnson
#37  Richard M. Nixon
#38  Gerald R. Ford
#39  James E. Carter
#40  Ronald Reagan
#41  George H. W. Bush
#42  William J. Clinton

William Carl Robert Meinzen (1892-1979), my maternal grandfather, lived during 17 presidencies.
#23  Benjamin Harrison
#24  Grover Cleveland
#25  William McKinley
#26  Theodore Roosevelt
#27  William H. Taft
#28  Woodrow W. Wilson
#29  Warren G. Harding
#30  Calvin Coolidge
#31  Herbert Hoover
#32  Franklin D. Roosevelt
#33  Harry Truman
#34  Dwight D. Eisenhower
#35  John F. Kennedy
#36  Lyndon B. Johnson
#37  Richard M. Nixon
#38  Gerald R. Ford
#39  James E. Carter

Henry Carl Meinzen (1837-1925), my maternal great-grandfather, though not an American citizen until 1870, was alive during 22 presidencies.  He became a citizen during the presidency of Ulysses S. Grant.
  #7  Andrew Jackson
  #8  Martin Van Buren
  #9  William Henry Harrison
#10  John Tyler
#11  James K. Polk
#12  Zachary Taylor
#13  Millard Fillmore
#14  Franklin Pierce
#15  James Buchanan
#16  Abraham Lincoln
#17  Andrew Jackson
#18  Ulysses S. Grant
#19  Rutherford B. Hayes
#20  James A Garfield
#21  Chester Arthur
#22  Grover Cleveland
#23  Benjamin Harrison
#24  Grover Cleveland
#25  William McKinley
#26  Theodore Roosevelt
#27  William Howard Taft
#28  Woodrow Wilson

Dixon Bartley (1806-1900), my father's maternal great-grandfather, lived during the presidencies of 23 men.
  #3  Thomas Jefferson
  #4  James Madison
  #5  James Monroe
  #6  John Quincy Adams
  #7  Andrew Jackson
  #8  Martin Van Buren
  #9  William Henry Harrison
#10  John Tyler
#11  James K. Polk
#12  Zachary Taylor
#13  Millard Fillmore
#14  Franklin Pierce
#15  James Buchanan
#16  Abraham Lincoln
#17  Andrew Jackson
#18  Ulysses S. Grant
#19  Rutherford B. Hayes
#20  James A Garfield
#21  Chester Arthur
#22  Grover Cleveland
#23  Benjamin Harrison
#24  Grover Cleveland
#25  William McKinley

Augustine Bickerstaff (1759-1857), my maternal grandmother's great-great-grandfather (or my 4th great-grandfather), lived during 14 presidents.
  #1  George Washington
  #2  John Adams
  #3  Thomas Jefferson
  #4  James Madison
  #5  James Monroe
  #6  John Quincy Adams
  #7  Andrew Jackson
  #8  Martin Van Buren
  #9  William Henry Harrison
#10  John Tyler
#11  James K. Polk
#12  Zachary Taylor
#13  Millard Fillmore
#14  Franklin Pierce

No matter which lines I follow and how I calculate it, besides myself, I need six more generations to have lived during the presidency from the beginning of the United States until our current president.  The only woman on these lists is my mother, primarily because my female ancestors seemed to live shorter lives than the men.  (And I was searching for longevity to increase the number of presidents during their lifetimes.)

While compiling these lists for my ancestors I began to wonder to which men and parties they gave their allegiance, which proposed ideas that they believed were right and true.  Though the issues would have been very different from those in our time I wonder how my sympathies would have aligned (or not) with theirs in their lifetimes, and how theirs might align with mine now.

--Nancy.

Copyright ©2017 Nancy Messier. All Rights Reserved.
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